Re: spitting, hissing, desperate disagreement

From Parsifal <>
Date Mon, 6 Sep 99 21:26:26 +0300

[: hacktivism :]

You wrote on 7/09/99 0:19 from Mark Jeftovic

>Putting up a KKK site is anyone's perogative, but don't go crying to 
>mommy if you get hacked to shreds. Anyone who is doing so is setting
>themselves up to be a target so they may as well get used to it. If
>they don't like it: Don't Do That, Then!

I think you overestimate the impact of hacking.
The KKK was existing a long time before the Internet.
IT carries a bunch of ideas which attract a kind of people, and they 
never needed a web site for this purpose.

If you were successful in killing the KKK, there would be immediately an 
other organization, with another name, which would re-use the same ideas.

Ideas, like economic market, deals with supply and demand.

Organizations like the KKK work because there is a demand for the ideas 
they praise.
The true problem is not the KKK, but that there are people interested in 
this kind of ideas.

If any action had to be taken, it should be to understand WHY some people 
are fascinated by racist, pro-nazis ideas.

I believe it is in great part because these ideas are described by the 
mainstream as demoniac. They don't join pro-nazis organizations because 
they hate judes, but because these organizations are the symbol of 
something antisocial, and the more you consider them as devil, the more 
you recruit for them.

Therefore, the first step to shut down them is to quit banning them, and 
quit fighting them.
Kill their "devil symbol" and you will withdraw the greatest part of 
their recruits...

Unfortunately, it seems that an average hacker is more skilled for 
computers than for psychology/sociology....

Racist, pro-nazis causes are problem of society, which have to be treated 

Are you so fool to imagine you can remedy those problems from behind your 
computer, by replacing the home page of these sites ? By the way, it 
should be interested to know how old are this list's subscribers.
Am I speaking with teenagers ?

Thus :

-1- hacking is inefficient because it is not able to really shut down 
organisations like the KKK. You replace their home page, good, and then ? 
It sounds more as a teenager exploit than as a mature action....

-2- even if hacking was efficient in destroying a web site, it would have 
no impact over the organization itself

-3-even if hacking had an impact on an organization, it couldn't restrain 
new ones to re-use the same ideas

-4-by making a fuss around these organizations, it promotes them, and 
recruits for them

-5-governments use these "exploits" to convince people the internet is 
not secure and that they must give up their privacy in order to clean it 
from these dangerous terrorists. I even wonder if hackers are not paid by 

Here are the true effects of hacking/cracking.

I suspect hackers, with this notion of hacktivism, of disguising the mere 
pleasure of hacking into a noble, political, activist commitment,.... 
just looking for credibility.

I wasn't able to read the least coherent argument justifying hacking in 
this thread. Only a few personal attacks, the ones used when, precisely, 
one is unable to argue and convince...

>"Free speech means the right to speak the truth, not to spew filth"

And who defines what is the truth ? You, probably ?
This kind of sentence is not acceptable.
For Hitler, the truth was to exterminate Judes.

>and that to me captures the essence of what the intent  of "free speech"
>really means, 

the ability to publish and promote one's ideas.

Is it such a difficult notion to understand ?


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