Re: HateWatch Press Release: Activism vs Hacktivism

[Parsifal <noosph@noosph.org>]

[: hacktivism :]

You wrote on 6/09/99 6:33 from Aimee vanwagea@bc.edu

>[: hacktivism :]
>
>This is from Parsifal:
>
>> Freedom of speech can not be limited. It exists or it 
>doesn't.
>> If it exists, it is for any cause, anybody.
>
>This, Parsifal, is not the only opinion on this matter.  
>All freedoms have limitations.  There is no pure freedom 
>of speech.  

And why not ? 
The Internet is the perfect place for this, a digital place where ALL 
ideas, all causes can express themselves, (and even for free if one 
agrees to deal with ad banners)....

I acknowledge there cannot be pure freedom in the real life, as my 
freedom would, at a given point, the freedom of other people...but tell 
me how the setting up of a web site could hurt the freedom of speech of 
someone else ?

If you don't like my ideas, you just don't connect to my site...and 
that's all.


>I think you need to be aware that your view 
>itself "acts like God".  You have put forth a principle that is 
>more important than anything else.  "Thou shall not limit 
>anyone's speech ever for any reason."  This is its own 
>dictatorship (and it is not a dictatorship of the people 
>because of the way current social relations stand.)

Indeed. Because if we admit that freedom of speech may be limited, we 
fall into arbitrary :
- who would be allowed to determine how freedom of speech must be limited 
? governments ? don't worry, they are working on it...or valorous digital 
crusaders, a digital version of NATO ?

If you allow freedom of speech to be limited, why not to start by 
limiting yours ?


>
>It doesn't make sense (to me) to talk about freedom of 
>speech as more important than fighting racism (or 
>imperialism or heterosexism or whatever).  Non-whites, the 
>"third 
>world" and queer people do not have the same freedoms 
>including those to speech (witness the paucity of 
>minorities on television, the lack of third world people 
>in public discourse, and the cancelling of "Ellen").

and i guess you want to fight against paucity by hacking sites ....



>  In 
>many cases in the U.S. such people are being singled out for 
>torture and execution.  
>
>If this were not the case, the universal application of 
>free speech over EVERYTHING else MIGHT make some sense.  
>But how does it make sense when the power to speak is not 
>evenly distributed?

It is on the Internet. (when hackers don't break into sites)

>
>Besides, temporary hacking of a site is perhaps akin to a 
>counterdemonstration on a street that blocks racists or 
>whatever from getting their message out.  You, I assume, 
>would not want to limit this sort of 
>counterdemonstration.  

You are wrong. I would.

Just a story. In France, the PACS is about to be voted. 
It is a text which provide gays and lesbians with a kind of civil 
marriage.
There were demonstrations in the streets, from people who are against 
this PACS.
We had the chance to watch at these people, to listen to their arguments, 
and it as enough to bring them into disrepute. They show themselves who 
they are : fascists, conservatice christians, etc...

If their demonstration had been blocked by a gang of valorous crusaders 
for the gay rights, people would have never had the chance to understand 
how stupid and fascist these anti-PACS demonstrators are.


By attempting to block a message, whatever it may be, you assume that 
people are too stupid to make their own opinion about this message.

You don"t even really fight against this message : you just deny the 
people's right to access information.

And this is a totalitarian attitude.

Yes, i want racists, nazis to be free of speaking, in order to measure 
how far they are dephased, and in what proportion they can endanger the 
whole society.

> Every single "freedom" has limitations in 
>order for society to function.

but you are not invested with the right to limit it.

In order for society to function, the ones able to limit freedom should 
be elected by people, otherwise, they are just a gang, a militia, digital 
or not.

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