Re: ~ It's about time

From "Matt Murphy" <>
Date Mon, 15 Nov 1999 19:38:14 -0500

[: hacktivism :]

Woah!  Holy Shit!  You guys are both entitled to your say, after all it is
your "freedom of speech."  Personally, I despise that term.  I mean you can
only read so much of that utter crap that the PHC spits out all over as they
hack webpages.  I mean the average person couldn't even tell you where
Kashmir is.  But obviously they (PHC) thinks that hacking webpages will do
something.  Personally, (again) if I was them, I'd enlist in a local militia
and raise some hell.

As for fascism, I think that the US would never let another fascism group
come into any "figuratively-major" power.  Notice all the little conflicts
we've been fighting...  Iraqi, and the place by Bosnia (Duh... brain fart.)

Basically this thing has boiled down to a shouting match.  Does the person
who shouts the loudest have the most freedom of speech?   No...  Not really.
So than,what should it matter if someone should come in control of a web
server and "shout" their message to the world by posting a new page?


-----Original Message-----
From: Legba Carrefour <>
To: <>
Date: Monday, November 15, 1999 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: ~ It's about time

>[: hacktivism :]
>First of all when some ass floods a corporate web page, I don't think
>it's a good idea. What the hell does that do for hacktivism other than
>get the loins of some hacker all steamed up with self-congratulation.
>Doesn't do shit.
>NOT that I am putting down these hackers. I think these people should
>redirect their efforts into other avenues. Imagine if someone hacked the
>state run television in China to show images of members of outlaw
>religious sect Falun Gong being beaten. THAT would be power.
>> Hmmm. So when a white-power race hate group has a web page, its free
>> speech, but Korporat Fascist Global Transnational MegaDeth Korporations,
>> or the FBI, or whatever, don't ever engage in this 'free speech'. I mean
>> everyone pretty much applauds loudly when a Gubbermint page gets Hacked.
>> So, please DON'T flood-attack that Shell Oil web page, after all they are
>> entitled to their point of view on the situation in Nigeria.
>Technically yes. However, if a corporation was suppressing information
>from other sources or from within their own company on the situation in
>Nigeria that might make them look bad, I could see a lot of use for
>hacktivism. Same with governments.
>If you want to show that someone is wrong, you counter their
>misinformation with your truth. You don't punch them in the nose and
>tell them they can't talk. We call this "fascism".
>>Pre-war Germans had all the 'information' they needed
>WHAT history book are you reading?! They were the targets of MASSIVE
>propaganda by the Nazi's throughout the thirties in order to destablize
>the weak democratic government. Check your facts.
>> LIES and MISINFORMATION are not 'free speech' anyway (not that race hate
>> groups have any monopoly on this).  Remember the pre-condition for
>> shouting 'Fire' in a crowded theatre?
>WRONG! Look in your constitutional law book. Shouting 'Fire' is an
>entirely seperate issue. That has to do with clear and present danger,
>such as standing on a street corner in harlem and shouting "KILL THE
>NIGGERS!" in an attempt to start a race riot. Lies and Misinformation
>are protected as free speech unless they fall under libel or slander
>laws. And it is VERY hard to prove that speech is libelous for a VERY
>good reason--in order to protect freedom of press.
>If misinformation was illegal, the gentleman who unknowingly posted that
>fallacy about the way cookies work could be arrested. Free speech don't
>work like that, bro.
>> Fascists are fascists,
>> you have to take the fight right up to their faces, to let them KNOW they
>> are irresolutely opposed by members of society and that they will NOT
>> power without the cost of CIVIL WAR.
>And so then you encourage them towards war. Look at the disenfranchised
>in America. Does the phrase "race riot" ring a bell. Oh yeah, that
>REALLY helped along race relations.
>Denying people free speech IS fascism and that is something we must
>protect against.
>Legba Carrefour
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