Re: Censorship or "Censorship": Chuck O's Toy Campaign

From Steven Green <>
Date Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:36:27 -0500 ()

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Hi Paul, (and all),

At the risk of sounding unpopular and getting in way over my head, (and
having only read your email and briefly Chuck O's previous postings), I
wanted to take the stand of defending people in general, (and not
necessarily Chuck O's views personally), who throw up their arms at *any*
and *all* forms of censorship.  Be it corporations like Mattel, Etoys or
CyberPatrol trying to stop smaller groups over alleged copyright, or
citizens/social justice groups like anti-fascism protestors trying to stop
hate and anti-semitism, in our world there is always somebody trying to
shut somebody else up. We live with injustice everywhere, everyday.

"Freedom of speech" is a very western/democratic notion that not everybody
on this planet feels they have -- or that all others should have.  It's
very tricky stuff, (and with a degree in Political Science, I can attest
to that.), but I'm sure everybody here already knows this. 

So, all I wanted to say to you, Paul, is that while I think you're *right*
in wondering how Chuck drew the line where he did, I think your energy is
wasted in bothering to find out. Why? Because your line is just as
arbitrary compared to Chuck's or where I, or where other people would draw
it as well. If Chuck wants to stop corporations shutting groups (ALL
groups) up, then that's fine with me -- but that ain't my battle.  And if
you want to go and fight supporters of fascism, then kudos to you.. but I
think i'll pass. Personally I think we should all be pointing our ddos
scripts toward land developers and companies like Monsanto, but that's
just my two cents as well.

Fight what you want, and in the words of Paul Watson, (co-founder of
Greenpeace), "if you don't like what I'm doing, that's FINE, go and fight
what YOU feel is important -- just don't waste the precious time we all
have left fighting ME, because in the end I'm on your side."

Keep fighting Paul, but I don't think the people on this list are your

Steve "It's all Boutique, Really" Green

On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, Paul Kneisel wrote:


> Where's the censorship, Chuck O? And where's your principles for
> determining what is "boutique" activism and what is real; what is an
> authoritarian campaign and what is anarchist; what is an important group
> worthy of sustained attack and what is trivial?
> Why did you oppose a campaign against fascists only to urge one against a
> toy company?



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