re: Autodesk cowed by threat of attack by RTMark (and

From King Wilson <>
Date Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:23:50 -0600

[: hacktivism :]

>[: hacktivism :]
>It sounds like you and Brad are more the vet 'activist', then a
>'hacktivist'. I am not an activist, and I have no intention is ever being
>one, but I do concider myself a hacktivist.

    Why don't you take a deep breath, gather your thoughts for a 
moment, and start over.  You are talking nonsense.

>It appears people think because something works on the street, that it
>must also apply online. This is a basic fallicy.

   wrong.  While specific issues of conduct on the Net may be 
different,  Personal Ethics are exactly the same.  For example,  you 
don't steal from people (which is what eToys did)  Why would you say 
they are different?

>Activism != Hacktivism

   Sometimes complete sentences are nice.  Are you saying that 
Activism IS, or IS NOT the same as hacktivism.  Let me point out that 
up above, you say you are an H, but not an A.
   I don't understand why you differentiate between the two, anyway

>People who think that doing these kind of eye-for-an-eye type of actions
>are right and justified need to get a clue.

   WTF????  You think RTMark was just out for blood?  Jesus, open your 
eyes, man.  You are crazy if you think that.
   Your argument could perhaps be made if, say RTMark had gone after 
Toys R Us as well as eToys, as a blind stab at the industry.  That 
would have been the abstract 'eye for an eye' situation.  This is 
COMPLETELY different

   AutoDesk was the aggressor, not that web site.  RTMark warned 
Autodesk that if they pressed the issue, something would happen.  It 
was entirely up to Autodesk to decide if they wanted a fight.

  Let me give you another 'Street' example (and please wrap your head 
around the fact that this is a symbolic example).   Inside your 
house, your own personal residence, you rig up a bowling ball, right 
above the only entrance.  Somebody comes to rob your house, and as 
they get to the front door, a sign that you made lights up, that says 
"Warning All Robbers:  You have absolutly no reason to be here.  If 
you come in, you may have a bowling ball dropped on your head"
    Get out your crayons, and let's play a fun game.  Draw parallels 
between that example and the eToys case.  See, it's the Real World 
and the Net, colliding, and getting all wacky.....
    Actually, for the above story to be really symbolic, the robber 
would have a large steel Court Order, to hold above his head as he 

>  If we want to keep the
>internet FREE, then we MUST act in a responsible manner. Threatening a
>company, like what was done with eToys, is a prime example of more being
>a vigalante then anything else. What does this kind of behavior lead to?
>Government stepping in to police things. All it will take is ONE instant
>for one of these 'threats' to go too far, and here come the feds with new
>laws, clipper chips, bugs, echelons, etc.
>What are you going to do then? Try and take down the US Govt?

     In other words, we are already beaten, so lie down and go to sleep.......
It sounds to me like you just want to go to sleep comfortably at 
night, and feel justified in your own mind that you did the Right 

>Hacktivism should be thought of in a similer way. You should want to bring
>the public attention to an issue, not get rid of the issue and sweep it
>under the rug (like what is being attempted with Autodesk). Look at
>Echleon Day. That was a prime example of what you should be doing;
>bringing attention to it. Look at what it accomplished; it's been
>acknolodged as existing, and more is known about it every day.

How is the AutoDesk issue being swept under the rug?
   Echleon Day was fine and dandy, but you didn't get anything out of 
it that didn't come straight from the government's mouth, and 
therefore you didn't get much, if anything.

   RTMark's actions are designed to get people talking, and that's 
exactly what it did.  It was picked up by evey paper in the country, 
multiple times.  And in the future, it may be regarded as one of the 
'shots heard round the world'

>I am sorry if you don't agree with my views, but then again, I am a
>technology vet and a net junkie, and not to mention some what of an
>infamous 'hacker' in my own right; I am not an activist.

   whatever, man.  You can call yourself whatever you want.  it's just 
a bunch of words.

								read icculus

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